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morsel![]() ![]() ![]() Headphone Council Joined: Mar. 21, 2002 | Message [#1] posted on: 02-02-2006 08:14 PM CST (US). Team Mł present a new community service project and invite your participation. After development is complete, we will make boards available if there is enough interest. There is no ETA on boards. Minił is pronounced mini cubed. The 3 is HTML ³ (Unicode 00b3). Design Goals Small, cheap, robust, great sound, easy for a novice to build
Attachment: C1363.gif,C1364.gif |
morsel![]() ![]() ![]() Headphone Council Joined: Mar. 21, 2002 | Message [#2] posted on: 02-02-2006 08:14 PM CST (US). Features and Circuit Description • 3 channel topology based on the AD8397 opamp Attaching the SOIC EPAD The only surface mount component is the AD8397ARDZ opamp. The ARDZ designation refers to the version with an SOIC EPAD, an exposed metal square on the underside of the package that conducts heat from the chip substrate to the pcb, improving power dissipation. Normally this would be reflow soldered in a factory, but we have devised a means to do this manually. Apply a flux pen to the EPAD and EPAD landing on the pcb. Use a thin strip of adhesive tape to hold the IC to the pcb, making certain the pin alignment is correct. Turn the board over and apply solder to the hole in the center of the EPAD landing, which will flow through the hole and bond to the EPAD. Remove the tape. If the chip is soldered, qapla'! If not, tape the chip back on and heat the hole again. Once the EPAD has bonded you can solder the pins. If you solder the pins first, you will have no way of knowing if the EPAD bonds. Bonding the EPAD is not required, but will improve thermal transfer, and is recommended, although it will make removal of the chip nearly impossible. Ferrite Beads The AD8397 is the crankiest opamp we have ever seen. A standard circuit with power rail bypassing, compensation caps, and balanced impedance at inverting and noninverting inputs oscillates when presented with capacitive loads such as a few feet of unterminated coaxial cable. It is possible to quell these oscillations with 33Ω output resistors, but this raises the remarkably low output impedance and wastes power. Ferrite beads are the way to go, as their impedance rises with frequency, and they are lossier and thus more absorptive than ordinary inductors. There are many different kinds of ferrite, each with a different frequency range. A trip to the local surplus shop resulted in 4 different kinds of ferrite beads, all unlabeled. All worked well at stabilizing the circuit under normal conditions, however, only 2 of the 4 ferrite beads were effective in controlling 3MHz oscillations that appeared during RMAA loopback testing with a defective cable. The most common ferrite beads are type 43 with a range of 20-400MHz and type 73 with a range of .5-50MHz. We are concerned that the more common type 43 ferrite is inadequate, and have both types on order from Mouser. We will report back on this asap. Panasonic makes ferrite beads with an unknown and possibly proprietary ferrite composition with a range of 1-1000MHz, according to their graphs. These should work, and are available through Digikey. Using good beads, our breadboard prototype works flawlessly. History As some of you know, the idea for a 3 channel cmoy style opamp project has been on my back burner for many years. The release of the AD8397 was the impetus that brought it back to life. We started working on it last summer, but went on hiatus from September to January. Some resemblence to Tangent's PINT is due to frequent communications between us and because there is only so much you can do with a couple of opamps. PINT is surface mount for mint tins, Minił is through hole for Serpac H65, with onboard jacks. Minił should appeal to those who balk at SMD assembly, want a better case, and don't mind the 2.75×5" size. If you want something really tiny, buy a Hornet or SuperMicro/Macro/Mini. [Edited by morsel on 02-07-2006 at 04:22 AM.] |
Pars![]() HeadWizer Joined: Nov. 12, 2003 | Message [#3] posted on: 02-02-2006 10:10 PM CST (US). Neat Morsel! Not familiar with that i/o jack footprint? At any rate, will be interested to hear/build one of these. |
jcx![]() HeadWizer Joined: Jul. 27, 2002 | Message [#4] posted on: 02-02-2006 10:55 PM CST (US). personally I don't think active ground is necessary with 2 batteries but if you must, why not use both op amps in the ground channel chip? http://headwize....e=opamp_prj.htm fig 12a shows the current sense/follower op amp paralleling method, with only 1 mV typ Vos the parallel ground buffer ad8397 would only draw 2 mA more with 1 Ohm sense resistors 2 ground op amps are necessary to hold down the active ground when both ouput channels are dumping in-phase, large signal current into ground |
skyskraper![]() HeadWizer Joined: Aug. 7, 2005 | Message [#5] posted on: 02-02-2006 11:06 PM CST (US). morsel, is it the team's intention to have C1 lie flat over OP1 and it associated circuitry? i ask because a 1000uF 25v panasonic FC has a height of 20mm which wouldn't work vertically in a H65 with an internal height of ~19.8mm before anything is put into it. |
ericj![]() ![]() HeadWize Fanatic Joined: Aug. 1, 2005 | Message [#6] posted on: 02-03-2006 12:47 AM CST (US).
As are Nichicon UPW - but UPJ and UPM series have 18x15mm (wider than tall) 1000uf 25v that would be worth looking into. |
morsel![]() ![]() ![]() Headphone Council Joined: Mar. 21, 2002 | Message [#7] posted on: 02-03-2006 02:16 AM CST (US). jcx, paralleling the opamps requires load matching resistors, which raise the output impedance and add complexity, especially if we put resistors on the left and right channels to match. We didn't want to go that route. The existing topology uses one opamp to drive output ground and the other to drive signal ground, so high load current will not pollute signal ground. skyskraper, there are Panasonic FC 25V 1000µF 16×15mm and 1200µF 18×15mm. As ericj says, the caps are wider than they are tall. [Edited by morsel on 02-03-2006 at 02:28 AM.] |
skyskraper![]() HeadWizer Joined: Aug. 7, 2005 | Message [#8] posted on: 02-03-2006 02:25 AM CST (US). easy enuff ![]() |
morsel![]() ![]() ![]() Headphone Council Joined: Mar. 21, 2002 | Message [#9] posted on: 02-03-2006 02:57 AM CST (US). I have not verified these parts yet, this is just a working list for our convenience. Parts List 1 Minił pcb 2 Maha Powerex 9.6V NiMH batteries [Edited by morsel on 02-10-2006 at 12:55 AM.] |
amb![]() ![]() ![]() Headphone Council Joined: Apr. 1, 2004 | Message [#10] posted on: 02-03-2006 04:28 AM CST (US). This announcement has long been in the making and I'm happy that we have now done it. Morsel and I waited until we have wrung out most of the issues with the AD8397 on our working breadboard prototype, The AD8397 is a rather finicky opamp and we wanted to make sure the basic concept and topology can be made to behave. This is a project that will take price/performance ratio of pocket amps to a new height. The AD8397 with its 310mA output current capability and rail-to-rail swing, plus the dual 9.6V batteries raises the bar for output drive capability of "pocket" headphone amps, yet does not require the complexity of separate output buffers. One notable aspect of the AD8397 is the lack of internal output current limiting and protection. This is a reason why this opamp has such stellar sonics, because current limiting circuitry has been shown to deteriorate the sound quality. However, the high-output current capability and lack of protection means that this chip could be damaged if an output short circuit or overload condition is allowed to persist. So, caution should be exercised. For this project, we chose to target specifically for the Serpac H-65 case, which then allowed us to design a highly-integrated PCB. With the exception of the battery clips, the volume pot, input/output and power jacks are all board-mounted. While the H-65 isn't the smallest of the bunch it still fits in a pocket, has room for two 9V batteries, and is relatively inexpensive. I will make PCBs available only if there is sufficient interest. So let me hear your feedback. As mentioned in the first post, there is currently no ETA on PCBs. [Edited by amb on 02-03-2006 at 04:34 AM.] |
skyskraper![]() HeadWizer Joined: Aug. 7, 2005 | Message [#11] posted on: 02-03-2006 05:41 AM CST (US). *sticks hand up for pcb's. i've been playing a bit with portables of late, i'm really interested to see how this turns out. given you're using the epad, this looks like it may be a prime candidate for toaster oven baking ![]() [Edited by skyskraper on 02-03-2006 at 07:36 AM.] |
| Billyk Member Joined: Oct. 7, 2005 | Message [#12] posted on: 02-03-2006 07:34 AM CST (US). Oh, Oh, Pick Me, Pick me.... I want one!!! /sits down after jumping up and down waving hands in the air ![]() Please add me to the waiting list for a PCB or three. |
n_maher![]() ![]() HeadWize Fanatic Joined: Dec. 15, 2004 | Message [#13] posted on: 02-03-2006 08:33 AM CST (US). Oh lord, like I need another project... Bring on the boards, I'll build a few, what the heck. I appreciate the fact that it's not going to cost an arm and a leg .As ususal, well done - very neat and tidy design. Nate |
| jar Member Joined: Sep. 29, 2008 | Message [#14] posted on: 02-03-2006 08:48 AM CST (US). Looks like a great project. I can't wait to build one. I'll definitely order several boards if they become available. A few questions: The WM080-1950-760 is marked as discontinued/replaced at mouser. Allied has a bunch of them though. The WM1024-760 is available at mouser, which is a 24V 0.4A brick, so that's close enough. Also, any tips on finding a universal switcher with regulation as good as the elpac? 2nd question, would it be possible to use board mounted battery tabs like in the hornet and headroom amps? I'm not too familiar with the H65, but if it's possible to avoid 9V snaps, I'm all for it. |
Steinchen![]() HeadWizer Joined: Oct. 12, 2005 | Message [#15] posted on: 02-03-2006 09:13 AM CST (US). Though I don't need it I'll build one If it can be build it has to be build ![]() count me in ![]() |
| rreynol Member Joined: Oct. 13, 2005 | Message [#16] posted on: 02-03-2006 10:14 AM CST (US). Looks interesting. If boards were made available, I'd buy some. |
n_maher![]() ![]() HeadWize Fanatic Joined: Dec. 15, 2004 | Message [#17] posted on: 02-03-2006 10:31 AM CST (US). Morsel/amb, Is the 1000uF looked at as a minimum, recommended or maximum value for C1? If it's not the minimum how low would you feel comfortable going? I'm thinking of trying to slam this is a TINY case, just for kicks. Nate |
| AtomBoy Member Joined: Oct. 12, 2005 | Message [#18] posted on: 02-03-2006 10:42 AM CST (US). Color me interested in a board or two. I like the idea of building for a specific case. It looks like it would be easy to make a very finished looking product. |
ericj![]() ![]() HeadWize Fanatic Joined: Aug. 1, 2005 | Message [#19] posted on: 02-03-2006 11:01 AM CST (US). I think this sounds like a pretty good idea, fwiw, but I'm on the fence with regard to whether I'd buy one. But I don't have any portable amps because i don't get much chance to listen to anything while mobile anymore. I'm interested in your results, though. I've considered developing the ghetto version of this sort of design, using jrc4556 or jrc2068 on a single-sided board that people can etch at home. Maybe just a small rectangular board requiring off-board jacks and pot. Or just make it easy to cut off / not etch the end of the board with the panel components. No reason you couldn't use other opamps, but those two jrc parts don't sound bad (imho), and can push enough current for low-z headphones. I just sometimes get the feeling that there's a gap in the DIY progression between building a cmoy or a47 on perfboard and when you end up buying a double-sided board from someone. [Edited by ericj on 02-03-2006 at 11:09 AM.] |
NeilR![]() HeadWizer Joined: Dec. 15, 2005 | Message [#20] posted on: 02-03-2006 12:31 PM CST (US). I think I would buy a couple boards.... I just put a Pimeta into a Serpac H67 case with 2 Maha 9Vs. I added a built in charger. In your case, the charger is even more important since I don't think the batteries can be removed without unscrewing the case. I like your design because it fits 2 bats into the slimmer H65. Here is my question... I considered a simple resistor to control the charge verses an LM317 and picked the resistor. With an LM317, you will get a steady current flow of 20-25 ma to achieve an 8-10 hour charge. With a resistor, my charge rate started out at 40ma at the instant of connection, and declined to 30ma within a half hour. At the end of an approximately 10 hour charge, it levels off at 12.1 - 14ma (not sure yet why I get inconsistent results between my breadboard and the real thing). This was with a 120R resistor and 25.5V regulated DC input. I am not an expert in these things, but I have searched the forums endlessly about this subject. While Tangent, for example, insists that 9V batteries do not like rapid charging, Thomas Distributing markets these batteries only with a fast charger (which I have used up to now). I don't think there is a formal data sheet on these batteries. So I guess there is some uncertainty in any charge rate decisions. I picked the resistor topology because of two reasons: 1) I will not always be there when the 10 hours are up, and in the event of a partial recharge, I will have no idea when the time is up, unless I bother to hook a milliameter inline with the DC power, which I am not going to do for routine charges. I know that a few excess hours or even days of charging should not kill the batteries if I understand things correctly, but more or less continual charging is not a good idea. 2) More importantly, in my Pimeta configuration I am drawing about 30ma with OPA627x3 and Buf634x3 (no stacked buffer). That gives me 6-7 hours of run time followed by 10 hours of charge time. I believe dual AD8397s will draw the same current? Schedules are such that this dictates that I run the amp off of wall power when I can. Otherwise I will run out of juice when I need it because I cannot schedule my life around a battery charging regimen. But I am not really supposed to run these batteries under a continuous charge on a regular basis.... My feeling is that I know I am going to "over charge" the batteries in an attempt to keep them topped off for portable use. Given that situation, I decided that the resistor method will be much gentler on the batteries (a lesser evil?) since they bottom out at 12-14ma rather than 20-25 ma with the LM317. On the front end, while my charge rate starts at 40ma, the charger that is sold with these batteries must be running a constant 100ma into them to get their 2 hour fast charge. Because of that, I am hoping that my initial more rapid pace will not hurt the batteries. I would appreciate your opinions on this matter. P.S. I want the best postable amp I can get in the smallest case I can get (performance vs case size) to use with my ER4-S, which are my portable phones. I guess most people now days buy the ER4-P for portable use. I find the ER4-S very bass deficient compared to my HD-650's and as a result, I built a bass boost into my Pimeta. For me, that is critical for my real day to day portable rig. Am I out in the wilderness on this? It was tough to get the bass boost into the H67/Pimeta and I would imagine it would be even more difficult to do the same in the slimmer H65, but I think it would be nice to at least make a well thought out provision to hack in a bass boost circuit. It may be that in order to do that, the builder would need to move up to the H67. Regards, |
morsel![]() ![]() ![]() Headphone Council Joined: Mar. 21, 2002 | Message [#21] posted on: 02-03-2006 01:32 PM CST (US). Regarding amb's post, if high impedance headphones are the only load, replacing the ferrite beads with 33Ω resistors will provide output protection at the cost of raising output impedance. I wouldn't do it, though. Thanks for your kind words, Nate. I slept like the dead last night, after 10 days of working nearly around the clock. Regarding C1 and tiny cases, 1000µF is our recommended value. We didn't try using lower values of C1. We considered designing this for the Hammond 1455C801 or 1455C1201 but in either case there is only room for 1 9V battery. We didn't want to compromise output voltage or resort to SMD and figured if people want something tiny they can build a PINT or buy a Hornet or SuperMicro/Macro/Mini. On the other hand, the whole point of this thread is to make changes according to your suggestions. If there is enough demand to go SMD and make it fit into a Hammond case, we could do it. Excellent questions, jar. The WM080-1950-760 linear supply has been in a state of apparent deprecation for some time. They are still being made, but availability is poor. The Elpac switching power supply we recommend is the MW1224-760. For a comparison, check out Tangent's Power Supply Tests. We were thinking about offering board mounted battery tabs, but I forgot to bring it up. The battery tabs are big. The power jack would have to be moved, which would require extending the board wing towards the front. C1 would have to be smaller, or perhaps have 2 of them instead. It seems simpler to use the classic 9V clips on leads. Opinions, everyone? Neil, you bring up a very good point. We chose the current source trickle charger without much thought, and because 25mA can safely charge the batteries all the time, but there is no question that long term use will shorten the life of the batteries. I'm sold on using just a resistor for faster variable current charging with a lower final current. What do the rest of you think? Bass Boost is another thing that I meant to address. Obviously, front panel space is tight. There is not going to be room for a second pot. The curved case walls make it tough to move the input jack to the side of the case. A DPST switch could provide a fixed level of bass boost, either on or off. This could be air wired to the existing R4 pads along with the appropriate resistors and capacitors. This reminds me, do people like the jacks on the left and the pot on the right? We could put the pot in the middle and the input jack on the right, but this makes for poorer access to the volume knob because the cables will be in the way on both sides. |
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