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 DIY Workshop » The SOHA - A New Hybrid Amplifier   
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pho_boi

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Edit Message Message [#80] posted on: 11-03-2005 04:31 AM CST (US).    View Profile for pho_boi   Send PM  to pho_boi   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
I thought I'd post up my board layout, so maybe someone can scan through it and see if I made any mistakes. Because I can never pick out my own mistakes <smile> . I'm going to build it on a Hole Matrix Prototype board, so just imagine all the other holes around the layout <sticking tongue out> . The board layout I drew doesn't include the power supply section, but everything else is there I HOPE <sticking tongue out> . This is the bass version however, I haven't had much time to fix the layout for the proper bass version or the normal version. But it's pretty much the same thing I think. Some people might think I'm a bit crazy using such big caps for the 22n and 100n, but they were the only polypropalene caps in those values I could find.

[edit] forgot to mention that the red lines are jumpers that are ontop of the board.

[edit2] i forgot to mark the orientation of the diodes, but thats pretty straight forward]


schem


layout

[Edited by pho_boi on 11-03-2005 at 03:39 AM.]

mains_hum



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Edit Message Message [#81] posted on: 11-03-2005 01:50 PM CST (US).    View Profile for mains_hum   Send PM  to mains_hum   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
Well, with those transformer readings and the fact that their VA rating is much higher than really needed, you will get my "on load" voltage reading "off load".
And I think you'll see hardly any variation when you do add load.
I guess the only downside is they make the SOHA a fair bit bigger than it could be .... but that's a minor issue.

Those polypropylene caps are way too big physically. Are you sure you can't get any VISHAY BC or EPCOS radial caps ?
Remember what the SOHA is about and thus its overall performance.
In your shoes I'd be happy to try using polyester caps for the 22nF and 100nF bass boost in this amp (if I thought bass boost is needed that is). Can you get these ? ... it'd help with your layout, but, of course, the caps you use is your choice.

[Edited by mains_hum on 11-03-2005 at 01:59 PM.]

Batman



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Edit Message Message [#82] posted on: 11-03-2005 10:34 PM CST (US).    View Profile for Batman   Send PM  to Batman   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
Yes, pho_boi, your layout is fine. I agree with mains_hum that you should try to find physically smaller caps. Part of this design was about small size. Otherwize it looks as if you're good to start building. You're not going to believe the sound that comes out of this little amp. <embarrassed>
pho_boi

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Edit Message Message [#83] posted on: 11-04-2005 07:13 AM CST (US).    View Profile for pho_boi   Send PM  to pho_boi   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
I will be building the the non-bass boost version, but I still need that 100nf cap. There is a place in Australia that sells vishay polypropylene caps in the right values, however the place is interstate and it's a bit of a hassle ordering parts and paying shipping. However I found these caps that are small and are available in the right values:

link

link2

Are these caps suitable for this amp? Polyester are easily obtainable in the values required, but I was told that polypropylene caps are much better?! Is there a huge difference in performance between the two types?

[Edited by pho_boi on 11-04-2005 at 07:41 AM.]

skyskraper


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Edit Message Message [#84] posted on: 11-04-2005 08:25 AM CST (US).    View Profile for skyskraper   Send PM  to skyskraper   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
ill speculate that the value of that cap is hardly critical. you could probably use a 0.1uF cap quite easily. *ss awaits confirmation or discreditation of his theory*
pho_boi

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Edit Message Message [#85] posted on: 11-04-2005 08:37 AM CST (US).    View Profile for pho_boi   Send PM  to pho_boi   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
Isn't 0.1uf equivalent to 100nf?


quote:

[By skyskraper] ill speculate that the value of that cap is hardly critical. you could probably use a 0.1uF cap quite easily. *ss awaits confirmation or discreditation of his theory*


skyskraper


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Edit Message Message [#86] posted on: 11-04-2005 09:25 AM CST (US).    View Profile for skyskraper   Send PM  to skyskraper   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
right you are, i thought it was pF lol . i'd get the wima mks4's that RS have
runeight



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Edit Message Message [#87] posted on: 11-04-2005 10:13 AM CST (US).    View Profile for runeight   Send PM  to runeight   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
For good bass response don't use anything smaller than 100n (0.1uf). Larger is ok.
mains_hum



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Edit Message Message [#88] posted on: 11-04-2005 10:21 AM CST (US).    View Profile for mains_hum   Send PM  to mains_hum   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
pho_boi,
First .. yes .. polyester caps are considered inferior. They'll still let a really nice sound flow if the rest of the components and the design are up to the job.

Second .. the polypropylene caps you show in the link will work just fine. The spec is pretty similar to the same style I used in the prototype.

You can use larger values with impunity, but don't go smaller than 100nF otherwise bass will suffer ... if this helps you choose.
Oh!, I see runeight has said the same thing while I was busy replying. It must be true then.

[Edited by mains_hum on 11-04-2005 at 09:23 AM.]

runeight



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Edit Message Message [#89] posted on: 11-06-2005 09:22 AM CST (US).    View Profile for runeight   Send PM  to runeight   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
This post is in reference to a conversation taking place on the YAHA thread. That discussion revolves around replacing the output stage of the SOHA with a diamond buffer (among other things).

Changing out the buffer in the SOHA needs some thought because the OPA2134 in unity gain mode has little or no DC offset. Other buffer types, with no output cap, might put significant DC offset into the headphones.

Here are two schematics for adding a diamond buffer to the SOHA. The first one uses a simple adjustment pot to set the DC offset to zero. The second uses an opamp servo. Obviously, either of these changes significantly increases the parts count of the original design.

Basic Stoopid with Diamond Buffer

This is a simple way to adjust the offset and it will work, but it may have substantial temperature drift problems. If it does, then the alternative is this opamp servo that will keep the output to within a 1mV or so.

Basic Stoopid with DB and Servo

As I recommened in the YAHA thread, I think it is best to first build the SOHA as originally designed because the quality of the sound comes mostly from the tube with higher B+. The output stage probably contributes little to the overall sound of the amp. I believe that mains and batman would agree with this based on the tweaking process that they went through as we finalized the design.

[Edited by runeight on 11-06-2005 at 04:11 PM.]

Batman



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Edit Message Message [#90] posted on: 11-06-2005 09:43 AM CST (US).    View Profile for Batman   Send PM  to Batman   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
I agree wholeheartedly with mains_hum and runeight.

The point that runeight and mains_hum are making is that, in both YAHA and SOHA, the biggest contributor to the sound is the valve and trying to improve the sound by changing other parts of the circuit is not likely to offer as much improvement as increasing the plate voltage. As I mentioned earlier, when I first powered up the prototype, the plate voltage was only 17V and the amp sounded decidedly unpleaseant. As we raised the plate voltage the sound became much more pleasing, perhaps as the tube became more linear.

One of the attractive features of these circuits (YAHA ansd SOHA) is their simplicity and low cost.

[Edited by Batman on 11-06-2005 at 09:45 AM.]

pho_boi

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Edit Message Message [#91] posted on: 11-10-2005 09:07 PM CST (US).    View Profile for pho_boi   Send PM  to pho_boi   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
Hey everyone,

Sorry to ask for this again, but could someone 'proof-read' my layout for the power supply section?

http://users.tpg...lmnlo/psu01.jpg

thank you

runeight



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Edit Message Message [#92] posted on: 11-10-2005 09:37 PM CST (US).    View Profile for runeight   Send PM  to runeight   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
Looks correct to me.

Are you still going to use the transformers that you showed us before? If so, we'll need to change the value of the heater resistors for the 12AU7. The resistors in the diagram are selected for a 200mA trafo with about 25% regulation. My first calculation says that you'll need about 60R on either side of the heater for your trafos. The 100||220 combination in the diagram gives about 69R.

You can get 60R by with 100||150. 2W resistors.

[Edited by runeight on 11-10-2005 at 11:09 PM.]

pho_boi

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Edit Message Message [#93] posted on: 11-10-2005 11:18 PM CST (US).    View Profile for pho_boi   Send PM  to pho_boi   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!

quote:

[By runeight] Looks correct to me.

Are you still going to use the transformers that you showed us before? If so, we'll need to change the value of the heater resistors for the 12AU7. The resistors in the diagram are selected for a 200mA trafo with about 25% regulation. My first calculation says that you'll need about 60R on either side of the heater for your trafos. The 100||220 combination in the diagram gives about 69R.

You can get 60R by with 100||150. 2W resistors.


At the moment I think I will be using those two tranfos. I was also wondering if I could use this transformer:

transformer

And I'll just wire the secondaries together like how you showed me earlier. That transfo has two 0-115v primaries, could I wire them in series so that I can use it with Australia's 230vac? If I do wires the primaries in series, how will this affect the secondaries? Sorry for all these questions about transformers <sticking tongue out>

Thanks

runeight



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Edit Message Message [#94] posted on: 11-10-2005 11:37 PM CST (US).    View Profile for runeight   Send PM  to runeight   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
Yes, the transformer at the link looks just about right. You wire the primaries and secondaries in series to get what you want. Like this:

If you use this trafo you should use the 100||220 resistor combination for the heaters. If you use your two big trafos, use the 100||150 combination first.

[Edited by runeight on 11-10-2005 at 11:38 PM.]

skyskraper


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Edit Message Message [#95] posted on: 11-11-2005 12:47 AM CST (US).    View Profile for skyskraper   Send PM  to skyskraper   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
for future reference, RS links time out pretty quickly so you can't link directly, a RS catalog number would be much better coz its universal across all RS organisations.
skyskraper


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Edit Message Message [#96] posted on: 11-11-2005 01:01 AM CST (US).    View Profile for skyskraper   Send PM  to skyskraper   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
for future reference, RS links time out pretty quickly so you can't link directly, a RS catalog number would be much better coz its universal across all RS organisations.
pho_boi

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Edit Message Message [#97] posted on: 11-11-2005 02:24 AM CST (US).    View Profile for pho_boi   Send PM  to pho_boi   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
Sorry guys, the catalog number is 201-7038.


quote:

[By skyskraper] for future reference, RS links time out pretty quickly so you can't link directly, a RS catalog number would be much better coz its universal across all RS organisations.


runeight



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Edit Message Message [#98] posted on: 11-11-2005 09:51 AM CST (US).    View Profile for runeight   Send PM  to runeight   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
Guess I got to the link just in time. <smile>

But, the 201-7038 is what I drew the picture for.

skyskraper


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Edit Message Message [#99] posted on: 11-11-2005 03:47 PM CST (US).    View Profile for skyskraper   Send PM  to skyskraper   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
no big deal, just makes the answer easier to work out, at another time, for those who aren't lucky enuff to catch the link in time <smile>
mains_hum



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Edit Message Message [#100] posted on: 11-12-2005 11:28 AM CST (US).    View Profile for mains_hum   Send PM  to mains_hum   |  Quote Message in Reply  |  Report SPAM!
The transformer ( RS part 201-7038 ) is made by Block
The RS site says its 26% regulation, yet that's not what the Farnell site says ... they reckon 69% regulation.
Why might this matter ? ... in normal use it won't.
But, if you power up the supply without the valve heater load B+ will sting if you touch it and 63V caps are a bit "iffy" if the 69% is correct whereas if 26% then the caps are OK.

Why don't we just say that all 100uF are 100V rating ?
Any PCB mount 0-15-0-15 transformer will then work and not be a problem no matter what the transformer regulation, also, caps are often supplied in packs of 5, so it helps in component type count too.

Just a hint to you builders out there.... while I put together the parts for my "Cool Stoopid" ... coming soon ....

[Edited by mains_hum on 11-12-2005 at 11:29 AM.]

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